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Topic: ETN story (Read 251 times) previous topic - next topic

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ETN story
I am so pissed, i am livid, i could barely sleep, I figured out a big part of their "game" how they are keeping PM's down. They are keeping the masses from buying real, physical, metal. I want to write an article to be published but that is not my bag. If it weren't bad enough that most PM direct investing is done with paper.
If this is not bad enough The next step down in investor (below gold contracts) Would be me, the miner investor. Because stocks are easier to control, they would get the new PM money into stocks instead of the metal. This is physical in the ground, real wealth. The issue becomes as the miners do well we make more money, get more margin, buy more stocks, driving the prices higher, causing more buying, a self fulfilling prophesy. Similar to BTC it goes up because the crypto group keeps getting more and more profit to take BTC off of the market, tightening supply as price increases, not increasing supply as prices go higher, the "supply demand curve equilibrium can never be met, the higher the price, the more investing the tighter the supply. there is no way to stop this, unless they accumulate the lows and dump them all at the highs, this drives the price down temporarily, but they can only do this with a slight net gain for the time they do it.
so how can they keep the ppl out of the PM sector? Specifically miners? they are herding the common guy into options. We all know the dangers of options, buy ppl still buy JNUG as a "get rich quick" way to invest in PM's So they get them investing in JNUG, not the index that holds the miners, but options on that. this way all they have to do is accumulate the shares of the miners near the lows, and buy calls on JNUG they then sell the calls, use the profit to buy puts on JNUG and sell off the real miners that all this pyramid is based on, and the whole thing crashes down. and next thing you know accts are blowing up everywhere, you put JNUG on margin and buy more JNUG it does not take much to get the margin calls rolling causing more selling all down the line.

For Entertainment Purposes Only.

Re: ETN story
Reply #1
1) what is an etn vs etf?
2) how to beat them at their own game any only buy options limiting risk, and maximizing gains.
3) if we as a crowd had put all the money lost in etn's  into real assets we would have more capital to defend out cumulative positions.
4) margin is a huge part of this problem.
5) SEC should investigate any connection between the silver dump and the vol in DSLV 2 days before.
6) why aren't there controls to prevent such a bump.
7) where were the market makers bids? 
8) was their unusual activity in dust and jdst dslv gld slv  etc? or their options  before this?
9) jnug market cap is almost 1BB what was it a week ago and where did the money go?
For Entertainment Purposes Only.

Re: ETN story
Reply #2
For Entertainment Purposes Only.

Re: ETN story
Reply #3
gdxj is same price today as the high was on, 4-20-2016  $35.5x

JNUG high on 4-20-16 was. $14.74! it is $6.72 today what % is that?


For Entertainment Purposes Only.

Re: ETN story
Reply #4
This forum has referenced the manipulation that takes place in the PM market on several occasions.
A few of us are fortunate to have some experience in PM's and are so used to it that we have adopted a certain strategy that allows us to remain solvent and hopefully sane.
I believe the key to success is knowing that an event like last week's dumping of such a large amount of futures  is part of being in metals. You must all know that this type of trading is a somewhat regular event.
The regulators are all in line with official policy of keeping the price of precious metals completely under control.
There are limits to this, $250  at the turn of the Millennium, and $700 in 2008 are examples of the maximum that the paper market can drag the physical market with it.
I believe Dec. 2015 was a similar price bottom,
This does not mean that another unwinding of the paper market isn't possible.
They can't let it unwind to the upside, because it would never stop, similar to what is happening in Bitcion,
 With no way for the establishment to short it, or take it over with a buyout or regulate it out of existence,  or tax the gains  it for that matter.
  It is tulip mania on a worldwide scale, with very little standing in it's way as it snowballs, becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.
 As people make money, they re-invset in the sector, this makes sense. You keep the winners and sell your losers.
Normally there are controls to alleviate this compounding of gains.
In BTC there are markets with leverage, similar to other asset markets. The difference is that as the new money flows in and is lost to the market, those making the money aren't the big boys, it is common people.
As these common people gain they are  saving them, not all are converted back into fiat.
Bitcoins are continually removed from the exchanges, put away in "cold storage" preventing them from being used against the market.
In other words their manipulation (see Chains last crackdown right after a CNBC story about BTC) will temporarily slow the rise, but in the longer term, is actually doing the opposite of the intent, the LT holders didn't sell and but as a collective gained BTC to be put away.
The manipulators may have made money but they aren't making BTC to keep. If they are doing this,  then it will be game over for any currency that is devaluing vs BTC.

This is what started to happen in the 1970's with silver and the Hunt Brothers. They made so many US dollars by holding real wealth that they were able to convert those dollars made on paper into more real wealth, Physical Silver. As the Hunt Brothers did this, the rest of the market started to follow and real shortages were causing a self-fulfilling prophesy of never-ending prices.
That is when they changed the rules in the middle of the game, and then blamed these 2 brothers for "cornering the market"
It was the changing of the rules that really led to the decline, taking most of the gains made by the rest of the PM investors with it.
The next 20 years were controlled with government dis-hoadring.
You can see the resulting price increase over the next decade.
With no more metal to fill the demand gap, other methods of preventing the collective from "cornering the market" had to be developed.
I know what the public goes through because I am one of those "Joe Publics"  with the exception that iI have an addiction to this sector. To the point of living it every day for years on end.
So I am sure what happened to me, happened to the "collective" also.
In the mid 2000's My stocks and physical and made me a lot of unrealized profit, which i re-invested into the stocks.
When the crash or 08 happened, I was forced to sell due to margin calls which drove the price on my remaining holdings down, which cased me to have to sell more, this continued until I had basically nothing left, right at the bottom.
This was the first part of the plan for the decade. the second part came during the next few years, where they didn't cap the market at all and let it go up to the point where the same situation manifested, all the newly made money was put back into the market, So that when it was decided to start the full-filling cycle of de-leveraging, The higher prices that they allowed in 2011, gave the collective just enough rope to hang themselves, again. Just in case they were still dangling, like me.
It was honestly luck that i liquidated my PM stocks in 2011.
By allowing the leverage and margined money to increase with price, far enough above the long term averages,  gave them the room to be able to get the margin call ball rolling.
The issue now is that the last cycle down was pushed below the long term averages and the metal is being taken from the markets again (See Russia and China's purchases) This just means that the same thing will have to keep happening to slow the melt-up of the entire sector. I believe this to be inevitable as the only value in a US Dollar or any other currency is it's utility.
It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that fiat is a horrible store of value for any duration, as it is constantly being diluted.
Because they are limited in the amount of control they can exercise  new methods needed to be developed in order to stem the flow of capitol into the sector as metal prices rise.
 



 
For Entertainment Purposes Only.

Re: ETN story
Reply #5
The solution would be to get the average investor into options. Options were not designed to be an easy way to make money they were designed as a way to take money. Stock options have decay, making a purchase made at a certain price per share be worthless if the share price is on the wrong side of the strike.
Most average investors, even new ones, know to stay away from options trading unless very well versed in investing.
In 2010 Drexton Financial launched several ETN's for tracking 3 times the daily movements of some of their ETF's. (EDIT)
An ETF or Exchange Traded Fund is a basket of stocks used to track a sector.  Thew 2 most common stock based in the PM sector are GDX and `GDXJ. These funds hold a basket of stocks, and pay the dividends to the holders of the fund.
This makes investing in mining companies easy, due diligence free, assuming that the miners continue higher.
An ETN is a basket of investment instruments mostly options, causing them to have decay. 
For Entertainment Purposes Only.

Re: ETN story
Reply #6
These are the notes and charts from the piece i am working on, sorry for the lack of editing.
For Entertainment Purposes Only.

Re: ETN story
Reply #7
The solution would be to get the average investor into options. Options were not designed to be an easy way to make money they were designed as a way to take money. Stock options have decay, making a purchase made at a certain price per share be worthless if the share price is on the wrong side of the strike.
Most average investors, even new ones, know to stay away from options trading unless very well versed in investing.
In 2010 Drexton Financial launched several ETN's for tracking 3 times the daily movements of some of their ETF's. (EDIT)
An ETF or Exchange Traded Fund is a basket of stocks used to track a sector.  Thew 2 most common stock based in the PM sector are GDX and `GDXJ. These funds hold a basket of stocks, and pay the dividends to the holders of the fund.
This makes investing in mining companies easy, due diligence free, assuming that the miners continue higher.
An ETN is a basket of investment instruments mostly options, causing them to have decay. 

GDXJ is down 5.92% at the moment and gold a little less than 1%, but my gold in ground stocks that I have been following are down about 2.5% on average. the stocks are DBEXF, ISVLF, BALMF, and USAS. Strange the micro caps with a lot of acreage for exploration are holding up better than the small caps.

Re: ETN story
Reply #8
These are the base notes for Shearing the sheeple. post. this is where that was leading.
 I am not a writer,  but i feel the  the information so important, that I want to try to put something together that conveys the whole idea. I was keeping the notes personal until done, but I don't care if you guys see my scratchpad, I want the Truth to be sought, and If there is a shred of it in there somewhere, and one person in the world gets the some help from it, then why hide it and wait?
For Entertainment Purposes Only.

  • ken
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Re: ETN story
Reply #9
The solution would be to get the average investor into options. Options were not designed to be an easy way to make money they were designed as a way to take money. Stock options have decay, making a purchase made at a certain price per share be worthless if the share price is on the wrong side of the strike.
Most average investors, even new ones, know to stay away from options trading unless very well versed in investing.
In 2010 Drexton Financial launched several ETN's for tracking 3 times the daily movements of some of their ETF's. (EDIT)
An ETF or Exchange Traded Fund is a basket of stocks used to track a sector.  Thew 2 most common stock based in the PM sector are GDX and `GDXJ. These funds hold a basket of stocks, and pay the dividends to the holders of the fund.
This makes investing in mining companies easy, due diligence free, assuming that the miners continue higher.
An ETN is a basket of investment instruments mostly options, causing them to have decay. 
I am leaning towards indexes for now on. Buy a small lot and make a lot more. Not trying to get rich. That is chasing after money and is a losing proposition I have learned. The driving down of the metals is designed to keep fiat as king. As it stands, this nation is heading towards not only a civil war but a world war at the same time. This is not going to end well for any of us. In the end, only food and ammo might matter.

Re: ETN story
Reply #10
The solution would be to get the average investor into options. Options were not designed to be an easy way to make money they were designed as a way to take money. Stock options have decay, making a purchase made at a certain price per share be worthless if the share price is on the wrong side of the strike.
Most average investors, even new ones, know to stay away from options trading unless very well versed in investing.
In 2010 Drexton Financial launched several ETN's for tracking 3 times the daily movements of some of their ETF's. (EDIT)
An ETF or Exchange Traded Fund is a basket of stocks used to track a sector.  Thew 2 most common stock based in the PM sector are GDX and `GDXJ. These funds hold a basket of stocks, and pay the dividends to the holders of the fund.
This makes investing in mining companies easy, due diligence free, assuming that the miners continue higher.
An ETN is a basket of investment instruments mostly options, causing them to have decay. 
I am leaning towards indexes for now on. Buy a small lot and make a lot more. Not trying to get rich. That is chasing after money and is a losing proposition I have learned. The driving down of the metals is designed to keep fiat as king. As it stands, this nation is heading towards not only a civil war but a world war at the same time. This is not going to end well for any of us. In the end, only food and ammo might matter.

I think you are right Ken and you might add to that list shelter, friends, family and faith.

Re: ETN story
Reply #11
These are the base notes for Shearing the sheeple. post. this is where that was leading.
 I am not a writer,  but i feel the  the information so important, that I want to try to put something together that conveys the whole idea. I was keeping the notes personal until done, but I don't care if you guys see my scratchpad, I want the Truth to be sought, and If there is a shred of it in there somewhere, and one person in the world gets the some help from it, then why hide it and wait?

Keep putting your thoughts on the forum Ed, I for one enjoy reading them and they cause me to think my positions. I have posted a few times with my thoughts about government, money and wealth, fed, and other things for the same basic reason, to get information and thoughts to folks so they can digest the material or at least think about why they believe their thoughts are correct and able withstand thoughtful challenge. It is healthy discussion.

Re: ETN story
Reply #12
So I have a good one to add to the list.
As of the exact moment, GDXJ is up .48% an ETN tracking this 3x should be up 1.44% but JNUG is up .72%
This is so off and has been for the past hour, that it seems like at first glance, that Drexton is skimming the till.
It is their job to manage the ETN to track the ETF by 3X if there is a discrepancy at times this is understandable as the fluctuation of buyers and sellers can shift ST prices.
But to let the ETF sit at .54% and the index it tracks to be up .42% is keeping the profit that should be gotten for the day to a minimum. 
They will try to say that they are tracking the day's move but this is how they gain the advantage, manipulate the market, keep the investors from profiting . On down day's, I bet they don't have any problem at all tracking the full 3x move (or more) from the previous day's close.
ATM JNUG is actually behind GDXJ, now exactly equal. .36% each. this is not right.
I will keep looking into this, if anyone can do any research it would be greatly appreciated.
I do not know which direction to go but I want to be able to show that Drexton is working against those trusting them to manage this,
For Entertainment Purposes Only.

Re: ETN story
Reply #13
They made that up quick now they are doing more than 3% GDXJ is down .03% and JNUG is down .72 % this is 20X different
For Entertainment Purposes Only.

  • Erich
  • [*][*][*][*]
Re: ETN story
Reply #14
So I have a good one to add to the list.
As of the exact moment, GDXJ is up .48% an ETN tracking this 3x should be up 1.44% but JNUG is up .72%
This is so off and has been for the past hour, that it seems like at first glance, that Drexton is skimming the till.
It is their job to manage the ETN to track the ETF by 3X if there is a discrepancy at times this is understandable as the fluctuation of buyers and sellers can shift ST prices.
But to let the ETF sit at .54% and the index it tracks to be up .42% is keeping the profit that should be gotten for the day to a minimum. 
They will try to say that they are tracking the day's move but this is how they gain the advantage, manipulate the market, keep the investors from profiting . On down day's, I bet they don't have any problem at all tracking the full 3x move (or more) from the previous day's close.
ATM JNUG is actually behind GDXJ, now exactly equal. .36% each. this is not right.
I will keep looking into this, if anyone can do any research it would be greatly appreciated.
I do not know which direction to go but I want to be able to show that Drexton is working against those trusting them to manage this,

The leveraged ETNs are always lagging. DZZ was flat for an hour before it caught up today. Plenty of room to fleece the sheep
The MMs love them. ER